haidut
Member
both taken transdermally?
Topically for Kuinone and oral/topical for Thorne. The oral route for Thorne was better than topical.
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both taken transdermally?
Did anyone ever get the skinnny on exactly what kind of adverse reaction Peat was talking about between K2 and vit E taken at the same time? I've been worried about this ever since, and it's annoying because I take both E and K and like them both and would like to take both daily, but now am worried about interactions. Since there are no specifics, just a vague reference, I'm wondering if it's just a supposition.
Thanks. So does this go for high doses only...? What do you consider would be a "window of safety" to space apart dosages of each? Just opinion is fine. Not looking for hard and fasts, just a guideline. I need both and have sort of fixated on this, which is keeping me from taking what I think I need to take. LOLThe both share the same transport protein, so taking high doses of both at the same time may inhibit absorption of the other. Similar to taurine and beta alanine. But I think he meant also that since vitamin K is a quinone and tocopherol is an alcohol, the quinone can potentially oxidize the alcohol and turn the tocopherol into in a hydroquinone or some other reactive molecule. Just speculation as he did not provide specifics but I have seen studies talk about oxidation of vitamin E in to quinones and other reactive molecules.
Thanks. So does this go for high doses only...? What do you consider would be a "window of safety" to space apart dosages of each? Just opinion is fine. Not looking for hard and fasts, just a guideline. I need both and have sort of fixated on this, which is keeping me from taking what I think I need to take. LOL
I had the impression that you can't mix vit E tocopherols with K2, even if it's to apply it topically. That means kuinone can be made with tocopherols as the DMSO free version.I think vitamin E under 200 IU daily and vitamin K under 5mg daily are probably OK and will not saturate the transport protein. Of course, if taken topically the protein binding may not even matter as both can enter the cell passively through diffusion.
I had the impression that you can't mix vit E tocopherols with K2, even if it's to apply it topically. That means kuinone can be made with tocopherols as the DMSO free version.
A paper on vitamin k and inslin sensitivityVitamin D and K have a primary role in bone metabolism, together with calcium and the androgenic hormones. Ray has written about the importance of these vitamins not only for bone health but also for insulin sensitivity and accelerating deactivation of estrogen.
RESULTS:
A total of eight trials involving 1,077 participants met the inclusion criteria. A wide variety of participants were enrolled, including older men, postmenopausal women, prediabetic premenopausal women, and participants with a history of diabetes, hypertension, or vascular disease. Vitamin K1 and vitamin K2 (MK-4 and MK-7 subtypes) were assessed. Supplementation period ranged from 4 weeks to 3 years. Vitamin K supplementation did not affect insulin sensitivity as measured by homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance, fasting plasma glucose, fasting plasma insulin, C-reactive protein, adiponectin, leptin, and interleukin-6 levels.
CONCLUSION:
Our analysis suggests no effect of vitamin K supplementation on insulin sensitivity.
Well, it did lower my hb1Ac% from 5.1 to 4.8 ( was using health natura) along with my serum calcium .A paper on vitamin k and inslin sensitivity
Effect of vitamin K supplementation on insulin sensitivity: a meta-analysis. - PubMed - NCBI
Did anyone ever get the skinnny on exactly what kind of adverse reaction Peat was talking about between K2 and vit E taken at the same time? I've been worried about this ever since, and it's annoying because I take both E and K and like them both and would like to take both daily, but now am worried about interactions. Since there are no specifics, just a vague reference, I'm wondering if it's just a supposition.
It did for me after two weeks with 1 or 2 mg of Kuinone (dmso), haidut said he gets the wrist/finger pain from androsterone and it seems to correlate well with other substances that profoundly lower estrogens.At higher doses (> 1 mg), it can easily cause pain in fingers and joints for me.
I did not try vitamin e on its own. Estroban, kuinone and white button mushrooms broth can all be very effective, but you need to look at diet among other things. Aim for good digestion and avoid the obvious crap would be my 2 cents.@Wagner83
@ecstatichamster
@Dante
Between Vitamin E and Vitamin K, which have you found more powerful for reducing estrogen? What dose would be needed to lower very high estrogen (with high water retention)?
Anytime I've felt best I had two or three BM a day, and anytime I felt worse you can bet digestion had slowed down (less than 1 BM a day) for a day or two.Nothing beats two crappers a day instead of one.
Great question as I wonder about the same. As well as side effects or downside of 15 mg plusHmm how much k2 is too much? Would .5mg per day be beneficial enough for aspirin? Im trying to not lower my estrogen too much because of crackling joints and tiredness.