Quinine - liquid product for R&D

[haidut]

Just a placeholder thread for now, until I organize all the references I think would be interesting/relevant to post here. For now, a quote from Peat on a recent interview about quinine and inflammation/ACE2, a very long thread/discussion in regards to quinine's anti-serotonin effects, and some studies showing quinine is also capable of acting similar to Meldonium - i.e. it blocks carnitine uptake into the cell (by inhibiting the organic cation transporter 2 (OCTN2 / OCT2) and thus lowers fatty acid oxidation (FAO).
More coming soon

1. Effects on inflammation

The root cause of all inflammation

This part is so interesting to me because it somehow aligns with the narrative and approach of Dr. Trevor Marshall [Excluding the VIT D part - of course XD]. So Trevor Marshall basically recommends using angiotensin II receptor blocker [OLMASARTAN] to raise and improve the innate immune system...

raypeatforum.com

The root cause of all inflammation

This part is so interesting to me because it somehow aligns with the narrative and approach of Dr. Trevor Marshall [Excluding the VIT D part - of course XD]. So Trevor Marshall basically recommends using angiotensin II receptor blocker [OLMASARTAN] to raise and improve the innate immune system...

raypeatforum.com

"...Q: Hello Dr. Peat
What do you think of the "Innate immune system" and it's suppression and activation? Does it even exist and can you actually activate it or suppress it?

I hear a lot of doctors using angiotensin II receptor blockers like losartan and olmesartan just to name a few using it to improve innate immune response.
What is your take on it?

RP: Those do help; also quinine..."

2. Effects on serotonin (5-HT)

Quinine Is A Serotonin Antagonist And Inhibits Serotonin Synthesis

Quinine is the original drug used against malaria, and is still used in certain countries to this day. This study shows that quinine does a few very interesting things that potentially explain its beneficial effects against the malaria plasmid and may be of interest to people trying to control...

raypeatforum.com

3. Effects on fatty acid oxidation (FAO)

Carnitine and γ-Butyrobetaine Stimulate Elimination of Meldonium due to Competition for OCTN2-mediated Transport - PubMed

Meldonium (3-(2,2,2-trimethylhydrazinium)propionate) is the most potent clinically used inhibitor of organic cation transporter 2 (OCTN2). Inhibition of OCTN2 leads to a decrease in carnitine and acylcarnitine contents in tissues and energy metabolism optimization-related cardioprotective...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"...Meldonium (3-(2,2,2-trimethylhydrazinium)propionate) is the most potent clinically used inhibitor of organic cation transporter 2 (OCTN2). Inhibition of OCTN2 leads to a decrease in carnitine and acylcarnitine contents in tissues and energy metabolism optimization-related cardioprotective effects."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2397847320915143

"...Meldonium can also inhibit OCTN2-mediated l-carnitine reabsorption in the liver and brain.29 OCTN2 is expressed in proximal tubule renal cells, and it prevents transport from the lumen to the bloodstream by an unknown carrier."
Quinine: Uses, Interactions, Mechanism of Action | DrugBank Online (see subsection "3. Solute carrier family 22 member 5")

https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/303060

SLC22A5 (OCTN2) Carnitine Transporter—Indispensable for Cell Metabolism, a Jekyll and Hyde of Human Cancer

Oxidation of fatty acids uses l-carnitine to transport acyl moieties to mitochondria in a so-called carnitine shuttle. The process of β-oxidation also takes place in cancer cells. The majority of carnitine comes from the diet and is transported to the cell by ubiquitously expressed organic...

www.mdpi.com

In vivo release of non-neuronal acetylcholine from the human skin as measured by dermal microdialysis: effect of botulinum toxin - PubMed

1.--Acetylcholine is synthesized in the majority of non-neuronal cells, for example in human skin. In the present experiments, the in vivo release of acetylcholine was measured by dermal microdialysis. 2.--Two microdialysis membranes were inserted intradermally at the medial shank of volunteers...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interaction of cations, anions, and weak base quinine with rat renal cation transporter rOCT2 compared with rOCT1 - PubMed

The rat organic cation transporter (rOCT)-2 was characterized by electrical and tracer flux measurements compared with rOCT1. By applying choline gradients to voltage-clamped Xenopus oocytes expressing rOCT2, potential-dependent currents could be induced in both directions. Tracer flux...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"... Inhibition experiments at different pH levels strongly suggest that the weak base quinine passively permeates the plasma membrane at physiological pH and inhibits rOCT2 from the intracellular side."
"...Quinine (1 mM), inhibitor of organic cation transporters, and carnitine (0.1 mM), substrate of the Na(+)-dependent carnitine transporter OCTN2, tended to reduce acetylcholine release (by 40%, not significant). "

Release of non-neuronal acetylcholine from the isolated human placenta is mediated by organic cation transporters - PubMed

1. The release of acetylcholine was investigated in the human placenta villus, a useful model for the characterization of the non-neuronal cholinergic system. 2. Quinine, an inhibitor of organic cation transporters (OCT), reduced acetylcholine release in a reversible and concentration-dependent...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"...Quinine, an inhibitor of organic cation transporters (OCT), reduced acetylcholine release in a reversible and concentration-dependent manner with an IC(50) value of 5 microM."

Cinchonine Prevents High-Fat-Diet-Induced Obesity through Downregulation of Adipogenesis and Adipose Inflammation

Cinchonine (C₁₉H₂₂N₂O) is a natural compound of Cinchona bark. Although cinchonine's antiplatelet effect has been reported in the previous study, antiobesity effect of cinchonine has never been studied. The main objective of this study was to investigate whether...

www.hindawi.com

 

[Kram]

I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable but there is a lot of discussion about side effects. Is this mostly an issue with dosage?

Quinine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[haidut]

I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable but there is a lot of discussion about side effects. Is this mostly an issue with dosage?

Quinine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most of the Wikipedia edits on side effects are very recent, over the last 2 years, which to me is quite suspicious. Looking at the side effects listed there, most of the references discuss them in the context of malaria treatment, which typically uses 600mg quinine 3-4 times daily. Those are very high doses.
In addition, there are many products on the market with cinchona bark and I have yet to see a study reporting serious side effects from such products, yet they contain quinine amounts sufficient to reach the malaria doses if used more than once daily.

 

[laleto12]

Only thing that Im concerned with that studies says it lowers testosterone.

I think they are on rats but..

 

[haidut]

Only thing that Im concerned with that studies says it lowers testosterone.

I think they are on rats but..

Some other researchers did a human study in order to confirm/refute the effects you mention were found in rats, and the results were negative - i.e. quinine in doses of 1,800mg daily (which was much higher than the HED used in the rat studies) did not have a negative effects on androgens levels of sperm parameters.

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1031.1342&rep=rep1&type=pdf

"...No statistical significant effect of these drugs on sperm count, percentage sperm forward motility and blood levels of testosterone were observed when pre-treatment results were compared with post-treatment and 65th day results as well as when results of quinine and chloroquine treated groups were compared with those of control group. The suggestion by disparate in vivo animal and in vitro studies that the short term use of these drugs to treat malaria may be associated with fertility changes as a result of their inherent anti-spermatogenic effects have not been collaborated by this study in adult men."

 

[Thedumbass]

I found this study on weight lose with lab mice a while back.
Quinine controls body weight gain without affecting food intake in male C57BL6 mice - BMC Physiology

 

[haidut]

I found this study on weight lose with lab mice a while back.
Quinine controls body weight gain without affecting food intake in male C57BL6 mice - BMC Physiology

Yep, great study, thanks. I will be posting that one as well in the "references" section.

 

[NewACC]

Hello, @haidut do you plan to replenish your assortment with some new products in the near future? What direction of additives will be? And one more question about your product pansteron, is it useful for PCT? Also, what dosages of lisuride and metergoline in combination would you recommend for a person with severe hyperprolactinemia (I know that your products are not discussed in any treatment context)?

 

[haidut]

Hello, @haidut do you plan to replenish your assortment with some new products in the near future? What direction of additives will be? And one more question about your product pansteron, is it useful for PCT? Also, what dosages of lisuride and metergoline in combination would you recommend for a person with severe hyperprolactinemia (I know that your products are not discussed in any treatment context)?

I just did replenish the product list - with quinine
As far as other replenishments - I do not discuss upcoming product releases as that leads to constant emails/calls from people asking "is it ready yet?". When there is a new product ready, I announce it on the forum.
As far as the other questions - I cannot answer them legally both because that would be giving "medical advice" (which I am not allowed to do) and because they are sold as lab/R&D products not advertised for human consumption, Also, they should not be posted here but in the respective threads.

 

[NewACC]

I just did replenish the product list - with quinine
As far as other replenishments - I do not discuss upcoming product releases as that leads to constant emails/calls from people asking "is it ready yet?". When there is a new product ready, I announce it on the forum.
As far as the other questions - I cannot answer them legally both because that would be giving "medical advice" (which I am not allowed to do) and because they are sold as lab/R&D products not advertised for human consumption, Also, they should not be posted here but in the respective threads

@haidut ok, thanks a lot and sorry for the offtopic! With great respect!

 

[Thedumbass]

Back when I was researching quinine I found this page from 1908 that references Euquinine Quinine ethyl carbonate a form of quinine.

ROYAL COMMISSION ON VIVISECTION

www.bmj.com

Out of curiosity what form is this product?

 

[Lampshard]

I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable but there is a lot of discussion about side effects. Is this mostly an issue with dosage?

Quinine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Many "new" drugs on the market (Metformin, serotonic Alzheimers meds, most SSRIs, etc.) are basically "demonic" substances that ruin the organism consuming them in a variety of ways, maybe having some almost accidental benefit, so it's normal for consumers to be very wary of inevitable "side effects" of any thing they take, but this is also easily exploitable by the industry by inventing all sorts of scary-sounding side effects to discredit traditional medicines as quinine (for example a lot of people are genuinely convinced taking a single dose of aspirin will give them an ulcer). Most truly beneficial substances such as progesterone basically have no drawbacks. I am extremely skeptical on quinine being dangerous to anyone here's rat and plan to make mine some tonic water. Congratulations to Mr. Dinkov for continuing to expand his library of offered substances.

 

[scoobydoo]

Any affects on libido?

 

[haidut]

Any affects on libido?

No negative effects to report on my part.

 

[haidut]

Back when I was researching quinine I found this page from 1908 that references Euquinine Quinine ethyl carbonate a form of quinine.

ROYAL COMMISSION ON VIVISECTION

www.bmj.com

Out of curiosity what form is this product?

It's just another quinine salt/ester that was used in the past. If you Google it, you will find pages discussing it.

 

[ddjd]

at last! no more buying tonic water lol

 

[aliml]

Niacin, Thiamine, Nicotine, Choline, Arginine, Creatine, Aldosterone, Dopamine, Acetylcholine, etc. also appear to be OCT2 inhibitors.

Organic cation/carnitine transporter 2 | DrugBank Online

go.drugbank.com

 

[Judd Crane]

at last! no more buying tonic water lol

Does Peat have any opinion on tonic water? All brands in my store contains citric acid.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Wow I feel pretty happy my thread and email exchange with RP was shared in the Georgies original post. It means I asked the right questions.
Serbo-Bulgarian Slavic connection xd

 

[haidut]

Niacin, Thiamine, Nicotine, Choline, Arginine, Creatine, Aldosterone, Dopamine, Acetylcholine, etc. also appear to be OCT2 inhibitors.

Organic cation/carnitine transporter 2 | DrugBank Online

go.drugbank.com

Good find, thanks. Pregnenolone, progesterone and testosterone are also OCTN2 inhibitors. Notably, the estrogens are not, which is another explanation as to why they promote heart disease and cancer.