If tomatoes are bad, why are they so good?

[TruffleGnocchi]

@Rinse & rePeat That mozzarella dish looks delicious.

The glutamate thing might explain this I never knew about this.

Glutamate is important for healthy metabolism, however most of the dietary glutamate we consume is used as fuel by the cells of the digestive system.

Big if true?
When I hear glutamate I think about glutamate toxicity. Maybe there is a difference between dietary glutamate and glutamate that ends up acting as a neurotransmitter.
Is dietary glutamate considered good or bad in RP view?

You should check Childers' diet. Dr Norman Childers made it to 100 yo just being on nightshades-free diet. He died (in 2013) from some infection, not from degenerative disease.
PUFA and gluten threat is overexagerated...

I dont know about PUFA and Gluten being exaggerated, when even mainstream medicine acknowledges that omega 6 is inflammatory, the most abundand omega 6 and PUFA in the diet of most people is linoleic acid. I know RP also says omega 3 is bad, but in general I think most PUFA is omega 6 fatty acids anyway, so even if RP is wrong on omega 3, limiting PUFA still applies.
Are you sure gluten and PUFA are exaggerated? And not nightshades? As far as I can remember, I think cutting out grains had a much bigger impact than cutting out vegetables, including nightshades (tomatoes and peppers specifically, mostly tomatoes). But it's been a while since I ate nightshades or grains, so I could be wrong of what happened.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

If glutamate tastes good to us that means its probably beneficial in some way right? Or does it just stimulate the taste receptors that are meant to detect something else in diet that is beneficial, other than glutamate, like a unintended cross-activation?

 

[Apple]

I dont know about PUFA and Gluten being exaggerated, when even mainstream medicine acknowledges that omega 6 is inflammatory, the most abundand omega 6 and PUFA in the diet of most people is linoleic acid. I know RP also says omega 3 is bad, but in general I think most PUFA is omega 6 fatty acids anyway, so even if RP is wrong on omega 3, limiting PUFA still applies.
Are you sure gluten and PUFA are exaggerated? And not nightshades? As far as I can remember, I think cutting out grains had a much bigger impact than cutting out vegetables, including nightshades (tomatoes and peppers specifically, mostly tomatoes). But it's been a while since I ate nightshades or grains, so I could be wrong of what happened.

omega 6 is inflammatory ...and what ? I don't see many people stuffing themselves with PUFA oils. Some people use sunflower oils for salads or for frying (less than tspn) . Those oils are usually fortified with vit E.
People who live on fast food/restaurant food probably have to be more carefull about oils, just I don't know many people eating like that...too expensive :))
Besides many people are now "health" consious , eat low gluten , avoid mayo and fast food, potato(nightshade) also got a bad reputation

 

[YourUniverse]

Tomatoes are highly sprayed and so may be one of the fruits worth getting organic.
They have one of the lowest PRAL scores of any food (something like -145 per serving, highly alkaline), only behind parsley as far as common food items go.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

omega 6 is inflammatory ...and what ? I don't see many people stuffing themselves with PUFA oils. Some people use sunflower oils for salads or for frying (less than tspn) . Those oils are usually fortified with vit E.
People who live on fast food/restaurant food probably have to be more carefull about oils, just I don't know many people eating like that...too expensive :))
Besides many people are now "health" consious , eat low gluten , avoid mayo and fast food, potato(nightshade) also got a bad reputation

Uncontrolled, overexaggerated, unintentional inflammation is probably bad 90-99% of time. I don't know how it can be good. If heart disease is because of immune cells building up into plaques, arthritis degradation of bones, autoimmune diseases, allergies, etc.. they all have to do with inflammation in one way or another. Inflammation is needed, oxidative molecules used as signaling molecules and stuff like that. But adding in more than needed, I dont know. There is a LOT of PUFA in food even if you dont eat fast food. Baked goods other than bread, and probably bread has some sunflower oil in it as well, candy bars, chocolate bars, now recently even haribo gummy bears..., icecreams, pizza,... Just adding more dynamite in the body to be ignited, + things get built with PUFA, I think linoleic acid, but not the omega 3 if I remember. Or brain stuff gets built with omega 3 idk.
I see your point now that I struggle to write a counter. Is inflammation bad, and why exactly, how much, where. All questions I dont have complete or any answer to. But just looking at the fact all these diseases are spreading in very recent times, and people ate nightshades, potateos at least, way before. Disproves the idea that nightshades are the main problem I think. Previously people didnt put sunflower oil in their bread or whatever they ate, because it didnt exist.

He says this which makes me trust his words less. Comparing smoking tobacco with eating eggplants. Is there any evidence of smoking tobacco increasing arthritis?
" L. Tobacco is also a member of this family of drug plants, which includes tomato, potato, eggplant, and peppers of all kinds (except black pepper). We know what tobacco can do to our health by comparing smokers to non-smokers."

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

@Rinse & rePeat That mozzarella dish looks delicious.

Thank you Gnocchi

 

[Beatrix_]

Is dietary glutamate considered good or bad in RP view?

'shrooms are loaded with glutamate, I think glycine balances it. Gluamate has lots of antidotes like zinc, magnesium, B2, glycine...
Monosodium glutamate causes me joint pain, whereas natural glutamate from food does not seem to bother me at all.

 

[lamassu]

I'm not sure they are so bad for everyone. If you have a problem with them then eliminate them

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

I mean the idea of nightshades being bad. Today I bought some Heinz Tomato Ketchup after probably 2-3 years of not eating it. It tasted amazing... Yesterday I put tomato sauce on my meat, so far so good, no digestion or brainfog problems yet that I can tell

 

[Apple]

I mean the idea of nightshades being bad. Today I bought some Heinz Tomato Ketchup after probably 2-3 years of not eating it. It tasted amazing... Yesterday I put tomato sauce on my meat, so far so good, no digestion or brainfog problems yet that I can tell

I think for young people nighshades stimulates growth (or hormesis in Ray Peat words). For elderly people solanine causes calcification ( due to similarity of solanine with vit d3)

Nightshades

🖨️ Print post Translations: Dutch Problems from these Popular Foods Exposed to the Light of Day The nightshades are members of an enormous family of plants called Solanaceae, […]

www.westonaprice.org

StartLogic

I'm not trying to prove / disprove anything... just my observations speak against nighshades. Their harm is cumulative. Just one day you notice your joints/muscle have been stiff for days/weeks...how come , am I not on a RP super diet + some potato(with ketchup)/tomato ? Why replacing potato with pasta makes me back normal ?

 

[Korven]

I think for young people nighshades stimulates growth (or hormesis in Ray Peat words). For elderly people solanine causes calcification ( due to similarity of solanine with vit d3)

Nightshades

🖨️ Print post Translations: Dutch Problems from these Popular Foods Exposed to the Light of Day The nightshades are members of an enormous family of plants called Solanaceae, […]

www.westonaprice.org

StartLogic

I'm not trying to prove / disprove anything... just my observations speak against nighshades. Their harm is cumulative. Just one day you notice your joints/muscle have been stiff for days/weeks...how come , am I not on a RP super diet + some potato/tomato ? Why replacing potato with pasta makes me back normal ?

Interesting...

There's also some evidence that the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors found in nightshades accumulate in the body and can cause negative symptoms associated with cholinergic excess: Anne Wright - Cholinesterase Inhibitors

Stiff and achy muscles/joints, excessive stress response, sleep issues (too much REM sleep and vivid dreams), mood issues and learned helplessness, seeking drugs to raise dopamine, and more

I will try avoiding cholinesterase inhibitors for a couple months now.

 

[Apple]

also this :

View: https://www.facebook.com/536629846349606/posts/in-memoriam-norman-f-childers-who-died-at-age-100-yearscancer-my-experiencedr-no/650113791667877/

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

You could be right and tomatoes are best avoided. It is still a mystery to me why they go so well with many foods and sometimes (not often anymore) I gett cravings for dishes that contain tomato.

Unrelated or maybe related: I read some article that said when Europeans came to the North American continent, when they met the natives, they said they looked very healthy and resilient ("breaking ice in the lake with their hands"), good skin, strong looking bodies. Europeans did have more illnesses than native american people in that time period as far as I can tell.
I know tomatoes originated from America but I'm saying maybe the European way of eating could be causative if this is even true, vs the American way of eating. There is som articles online that said native tribes that ate corn or something like that had worse health than tribes that did not

 

[Orome]

One of the many lessons I have learned from studying Ray's work is that plants and vegetables are not only completely unnecessary, but can be very dangerous if consumed regularly and not prepared well.

And nightshade plants are ..."shady." I would consume them only occasionally and very well cooked. Never raw. I firmly believe they are pro-inflammatory. My mother, 71, suffers from osteoarthritis and osteoporosis and has immense pain in almost all her joints (can barely move some days). Her diet is very close to the Mediterranean diet and is considered very healthy by Western standards. One thing she eats EVERY DAY is raw tomatoes (she puts them everywhere: on her bread, in her salad, as a side dish...). I'm sure there's a connection there:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277718735_The_use_of_Niacinamide_and_Solanaceae_Nightshade_Elimination_in_the_Treatment_of_Osteoarthritis

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

View: https://youtu.be/DEe2g6yjKHM?si=gPoiMXTWS3EiLsg-

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

Cool, so he says allergens are a problem if a person has allergies but otherwise ok because they are from cellulose, or did he say that about cellulose as unrelated to tomatoes I cant tell

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Cool, so he says allergens are a problem if a person has allergies but otherwise ok because they are from cellulose, or did he say that about cellulose as unrelated to tomatoes I cant tell

From what I get, the cellulose is not a problem, so yes just the allergens if one is allergic, as far as those two things go.

 

[Hellens]

all nightshades are poisonous . Garrett Smith wrote an excellent article on this topic so you won't want to touch them anymore.
And if you still have doubts , check out Childers diet.

Nightshades are definitely inflammatory. So many of my issues go away when quitting potatoes and tobacco. I attribute my childhood nightmares from nightshade consumption; everyday potatoes and tomatoes.

 

[Healthseeker]

Guy makes a good point about foods being different for the young and old. I don't have an experience on nightshades here but, a good example for me would be milk. Ive noticed when my prostate is having trouble. Milk makes it tighter. Otherwise no real problem with milk. Something like that could be happening with nightshades for others.