Gonadin - Liquid Steroid Optimizer For Lab/R&D

[Wagner83]

What lead me to the question, about how much is the dose required to reach 30μM/L concentration?

Maybe this will help:
Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso

 

[charlie]

Is there a limit on how many titles it would pull automatically? Maybe @charlie would know?

There is a hard coded time limit, no way to change it. So after it times out on pulling the title over, it goes ahead and submits the post even if all titles were not pulled. Also I notice Pubmed is very slow to respond at different times. So the way around this is to click edit, then hit "save changes" so that it will go through the process again for the rest of the links that were not done. I went ahead and did it for your OP. It took a few times but it did get them all done.

 

[Waynish]

Isn't Squalene the dangerous substance used in vaccines? I'll have to lookup references, but I remember reading that injecting it can basically cause PTSD (tests on soldiers - my memory might not be serving me right, though).
EDIT: I release this source isn't trustworthy, but reading the cautionary - even if bogus - tales of a substance is probably a good idea before taking it:
Million TIMES More Squalene In H1N1 Vax Than Caused GWI !!

 

[haidut]

@haidut

When you first mentioned squalene as a possible component of TocoVit, I recalled a caution from Andrew Kim:

"Free fatty acids and squalene are major lipids that make up sebum. Squalene is highly unsaturated in structure and highly susceptible to peroxidation and photodegradation. The byproducts, squalene peroxides, promote acne, roughening of skin, and wrinkling.5,6 The free fatty acids, when polyunsaturated, degenerate to promote the peroxidation of nearby lipids, including squalene, whereas saturated fats do not."

Not sure on the current state of the research though

Yes, it is similar to vitamin A in that respect. But one of the studies I posted above in the "Skin health" section deals exactly with the presence of squalene in the sebum and concludes that it is there as a protective mechanism. Also, the amount in Gonadin is not that much, and it matches the study in boars. So, I used the minimum amount that was shown to have a highly beneficial effects. Finally, there is sufficient vitamin E in Gonadin to protect from any peroxidation issues with squalene.

 

[haidut]

If I'm not mistaken these are all natural chemicals?

Yes, they are.

 

[haidut]

@haidut any information on the safety of these compounds in humans?

A good number of the studies in the References section are on humans. There were no toxicities as far as I could see.

 

[haidut]

dude, I love you, no homo:)...but seriously I'm extremely excited! I respond very well to K2 (it shoots my libido up big time) so this is very interesting to me and not only that but it can increase the function of the gonads and provide skin and hair benefits? No brainer...ordered.

I'll log it when I get it.

And no DMSO

Lol, glad to hear it. Yes, please keep everybody posted on experimental results.

 

[haidut]

@haidut do you think this would have an effect on a rat with high FSH?

Not sure, the studies showed no effects on pituitary hormones but if it increases progesterone enough that should trigger the negative feedback mechanism and lower FSH.

 

[Agent207]

Isn't Squalene the dangerous substance used in vaccines?

I'd say its thimerosal -along with formaldehydes- the most dangerous one.

 

[haidut]

Are they also going to be directly androgenic ?

Not directly. One of them is dopaminergic, anti-serotonin, anti-cortisol, and a powerful HDAC inhibitor (anti-cancer). The dopamine and anti-cortisol effects may lead to improved steroid profile though. The other one is an electron withdrawing agent and it is sold as a drug for improving heart function and metabolism in some countries. It is not related to Mildronate though.

 

[haidut]

Would it be better to apply this on the testicles (of a male rat) or will any area work just as well?

I think the scrotum application would also work and should be able to achieve the same with much lower dose. But given that many tissues can synthesize steroids, you may want the systemic effects as well.

 

[haidut]

But is it actually squalene or squalane containing? Some of the studies linked here point out to both indistinctly. From what I read it seems to be a strong generalized ethic concern with shark derived squalene, while the squalane being the better approach for skin hydration.


"Squalane is derived by hydrogenation of squalene. It is naturally present in the skin lipid barrier of plants, animals and humans, preventing moisture loss while restoring skin’s suppleness and flexibility.
Due to the complete saturation of squalane, it is not subject to auto-oxidation. This coupled with lower costs make it desirable for cosmetics where it is used as an emollient and moisturizer.
The EU took steps to ban targeted deep‐sea shark fisheries back in 2010. However, consumers willing to buy ethical products cannot choose specific plant based squalane ones because differentiation between the substance of origin is not required in labeling requirements."

Squalane versus squalene, are you aware of what you may be paying for?

It is squalene. The saturated version squalane was not shown to have effects on steroidogenesis.

 

[Waynish]

It is squalene. The saturated version squalane was not shown to have effects on steroidogenesis.

Ah, sorry for the conflation. I'll look into what possible actions it has in the blood. Interesting how one could have (supposedly) such toxic effects, while the saturated not having them.

 

[haidut]

Well, some comments

In fact, it should be stated that it was observed to be more effective at 30μM. Otherwise, at 10μM the outcome was worse than GGOH and close to control.
What lead me to the question, about how much is the dose required to reach 30μM/L concentration?




So for testosterone levels to increase it took higher dose than 40mg/kg/day. For average 80kg male this would mean a dose higher than 3gr. of squalene.

OK, I will change that in the original thread. The 30uM concentration was the same they used in the vitamin K study and that study replicated the results in vivo using vitamin K2 in a HED of 1mg/kg. So, for most people 70mg - 100mg vitamin K2 daily should replicate that study. But no all of those 70mg-100mg vitamin K2 is geranylgeraniol. So, to be conservative, I put 100mg phytol just to be sure. To achieve 1uM concentration you need about 3mg phytol. So the 100mg per dose seems to be good.
Finally, the study in boars used 40mg/kg of diet, not bodyweight. From the study:
"...Experimental groups of boars were treated with 10, 20 or 40 mg/kg/day squalene in 1 kg basal diet, respectively (Healthy Nature Resource, Inc., Walnut, CA, USA) and then were fed with 1.5 kg basal diet and 0.5–1.0 kg green feed daily."


The conversion factor from pigs to humans is about 1:1 so this means 40mg/kg of diet in humans as well. Given that humans consume on average about 2.5kg of food daily, you get 100mg of squalene. Btw, the lower dose of 20mg/kg also had an effect and it was not that far off from the 40mg/kg but given that an overall dose of 100mg daily would not be that much and I wanted to keep things simple I went with that amount per dose.

 

[haidut]

There is a hard coded time limit, no way to change it. So after it times out on pulling the title over, it goes ahead and submits the post even if all titles were not pulled. Also I notice Pubmed is very slow to respond at different times. So the way around this is to click edit, then hit "save changes" so that it will go through the process again for the rest of the links that were not done. I went ahead and did it for your OP. It took a few times but it did get them all done.

Great, thanks!

 

[haidut]

Isn't Squalene the dangerous substance used in vaccines? I'll have to lookup references, but I remember reading that injecting it can basically cause PTSD (tests on soldiers - my memory might not be serving me right, though).
EDIT: I release this source isn't trustworthy, but reading the cautionary - even if bogus - tales of a substance is probably a good idea before taking it:
Million TIMES More Squalene In H1N1 Vax Than Caused GWI !!

Possibly, when injected. Squalene is present in (real) olive oil in about 0.5% concentration. So if you eat about 30g of olive oil you'd get that amount of squalene. I am not aware of anybody getting side effects from dietary squalene.

 

[haidut]

Maybe this will help:
Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso

See this post for discussion on dose/concentration.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...id-optimizer-for-r-d.15620/page-2#post-212624

 

[dookie]

@haidut

Have you yourself used this product yet, and if so, what were the effects you noticed?

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Have you yourself used this product yet, and if so, what were the effects you noticed?

Yes, it increased my T levels by about 30%.

 

[dookie]

Possibly, when injected. Squalene is present in (real) olive oil in about 0.5% concentration. So if you eat about 30g of olive oil you'd get that amount of squalene. I am not aware of anybody getting side effects from dietary squalene.

What's the argument for taking a synthetic supplement of something that can be consumed naturally in a food? Even Peat recommends against such things - he said its much safer to eat coconut oil than to take the "MCT oils" ..