DHEA (and Other Androgens) Deplete EFA (PUFA) And Increase SFA

[haidut]

A human study and as such very relevant. The dose of DHEA used was high (200mg), but androgens derived from DHEA have the same (and even more potent) effects in much lower doses, so low-dose DHEA should have similar (if not even better) effect. Yet another indication that androgens are beneficial and the lowering of EFA (PUFA) may explain a good deal of their beneficial effects.
The effects were visible even after 15 days but became a lot more pronounced at the 30-day mark.

Administration of dehydroepiandrosterone enanthate to oophorectomized women--effects on sex hormones and lipid metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI
"...More marked changes were found in the relative fatty acid composition of cholesterol esters, with a decrease in the essential fatty acids linoleic and arachidonic and an increase in non-essential palmitic and oleic acids. In a comparative study between post-menopausal and amenorrhoeic women, women with amenorrhoea were found to have higher levels of testosterone and androstenedione and lower SHBG compared to post menopausal women. Also in this study the essential fatty acids were lower (G. Samsioe and L. Hamberger, to be published). It is therefore suggested that androgens induce changes mainly in the fatty acid composition of cholesterol esters."

 

[paymanz]

Nice!!! Thanks

 

[natedawggh]

A human study and as such very relevant. The dose of DHEA used was high (200mg), but androgens derived from DHEA have the same (and even more potent) effects in much lower doses, so low-dose DHEA should have similar (if not even better) effect. Yet another indication that androgens are beneficial and the lowering of EFA (PUFA) may explain a good deal of their beneficial effects.
The effects were visible even after 15 days but became a lot more pronounced at the 30-day mark.

Administration of dehydroepiandrosterone enanthate to oophorectomized women--effects on sex hormones and lipid metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI
"...More marked changes were found in the relative fatty acid composition of cholesterol esters, with a decrease in the essential fatty acids linoleic and arachidonic and an increase in non-essential palmitic and oleic acids. In a comparative study between post-menopausal and amenorrhoeic women, women with amenorrhoea were found to have higher levels of testosterone and androstenedione and lower SHBG compared to post menopausal women. Also in this study the essential fatty acids were lower (G. Samsioe and L. Hamberger, to be published). It is therefore suggested that androgens induce changes mainly in the fatty acid composition of cholesterol esters."

Very cool. I have been wondering lately about the timing of DHEA administration, that perhaps men should take DHEA at night, as testosterone production occurs during sleep? Or is this maybe not important? Would the fact that the subjects lacked gonads produce a different outcome than this with them? Since much aromatization of androgens takes place in the gonads would these subjects be artificially benefitting from the lack of them in this study's case?

 

[haidut]

Very cool. I have been wondering lately about the timing of DHEA administration, that perhaps men should take DHEA at night, as testosterone production occurs during sleep? Or is this maybe not important? Would the fact that the subjects lacked gonads produce a different outcome than this with them? Since much aromatization of androgens takes place in the gonads would these subjects be artificially benefitting from the lack of them in this study's case?

I posted another study showing that in the absense of significant inflammation/stress, DHEA itself inhibits aromatase.
Low-dose DHEA Inhibits Aromatase By 35% And Endotoxin Blocks That Effect

So, if the absence of severe night stress I think taking DHEA at night would be good for T production. Adding some pregnenolone/progesterone would probably diminish the opportunity for aromatization even more. I personally never had issues with DHEA except when I took a single 50mg dose back in 2011 and had an acne breakout. Never had acne breakout (or any acne in general throughout life) from using DHT, 11K-DHT or small doses DHEA. In small doses of say 5mg at night DHEA even on its own gives me the benefits I want and I wake up with pumped up muscles.

 

[sladerunner69]

A human study and as such very relevant. The dose of DHEA used was high (200mg), but androgens derived from DHEA have the same (and even more potent) effects in much lower doses, so low-dose DHEA should have similar (if not even better) effect. Yet another indication that androgens are beneficial and the lowering of EFA (PUFA) may explain a good deal of their beneficial effects.
The effects were visible even after 15 days but became a lot more pronounced at the 30-day mark.

Administration of dehydroepiandrosterone enanthate to oophorectomized women--effects on sex hormones and lipid metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI
"...More marked changes were found in the relative fatty acid composition of cholesterol esters, with a decrease in the essential fatty acids linoleic and arachidonic and an increase in non-essential palmitic and oleic acids. In a comparative study between post-menopausal and amenorrhoeic women, women with amenorrhoea were found to have higher levels of testosterone and androstenedione and lower SHBG compared to post menopausal women. Also in this study the essential fatty acids were lower (G. Samsioe and L. Hamberger, to be published). It is therefore suggested that androgens induce changes mainly in the fatty acid composition of cholesterol esters."

200mg is a giant dose! I could barely do 15 gram dosages. Also it would make me very brain fogged at higher and higher dosages, similar to pregnenelone.

 

[charmer]

I am wondering why DHEA does not work for me in low doses. Even if I take 2mg orally, I get estrogen symptoms in a bit, I feel very hysterical and pessimistic. The time I was taking this amount for a week or so, I ended up in the hospital with UTI.

Perhaps the gut flora converts it to estrogen? I had a similar thing with progesterone form in peanut oil (utrogestan), first it made me very happy as progesterone is supposed to, then after a few days it made me hysterical.

 

[Luann]

DHEA cleans CoA out of the body, which means long chain fats can't be made from saturated ones. That's a good thing!

 

[Luann]

Er, that was a dumb post. Made without knowing the difference between acyl coenzyme a and its products, the desaturases; and also not realizing that we lack the delta-12 that further unsaturates MUFA. He, he.

 

[SolidSteele]

I've got a question. How does this deplete PUFA? I get that the cholesterol bind to more SFA instead of PUFA but doesn't that mean that there are less chance of forming plaques from the oxidised ester and that the PUFA is just circulating?

 

[haidut]

I've got a question. How does this deplete PUFA? I get that the cholesterol bind to more SFA instead of PUFA but doesn't that mean that there are less chance of forming plaques from the oxidised ester and that the PUFA is just circulating?

You want PUFA to be circulating and not be inside the cell. Otherwise it cannot get excreted. The key is to not get too much circulating PUFA as it can poison your liver. That is what niacinamide is for.

 

[SolidSteele]

You want PUFA to be circulating and not be inside the cell. Otherwise it cannot get excreted. The key is to not get too much circulating PUFA as it can poison your liver. That is what niacinamide is for.

That makes sense. Thanks.