Chris Masterjohn Position On Vitamin D For COVID - 19; VD Reduces Risks Efficiently

[lvysaur]

In that sense it could also mean that VD still has effectivity, but the readings are off.

Why would the readings be off?
I'm also basing this on vitamin D having literally zero discernible effects for me, over a period of almost a decade. I can see clear discernible effects from K2, E, C, selenium, calcium, magnesium. For me, Vitamin D both does nothing subjectively, does not raise my blood levels, and is confirmed to be unimportant in many people genetically. For 50-90% (depending on population) it is completely useless.

Though there doesn't seem to be any harm in consuming more. And for the 10-50% of the population who need it, I'm sure it's life-saving. For the others it's equivalent to drinking water, so don't be surprised if megadosing vitamin D does literally nothing, not even raising your blood levels--because the chances of it doing so are literally a coin flip.

By all means supplement it, especially if you don't know your genetic background or the way you react to it. But I'm frankly tired of all this hubbub around vitamin D: yes, it saves many people, no it's not a miracle cure, no Black people are not deficient, no it's not some secret that's being kept away--literally everybody knows about it unless they live in a cave

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Why would the readings be off?
I'm also basing this on vitamin D having literally zero discernible effects for me, over a period of almost a decade. I can see clear discernible effects from K2, E, C, selenium, calcium, magnesium. For me, Vitamin D both does nothing subjectively, does not raise my blood levels, and is confirmed to be unimportant in many people genetically. For 50-90% (depending on population) it is completely useless.

Though there doesn't seem to be any harm in consuming more. And for the 10-50% of the population who need it, I'm sure it's life-saving. For the others it's equivalent to drinking water, so don't be surprised if megadosing vitamin D does literally nothing, not even raising your blood levels--because the chances of it doing so are literally a coin flip.

By all means supplement it, especially if you don't know your genetic background or the way you react to it. But I'm frankly tired of all this hubbub around vitamin D: yes, it saves many people, no it's not a miracle cure, no Black people are not deficient, no it's not some secret that's being kept away--literally everybody knows about it unless they live in a cave

I never heard of these assumptions before, that it could be completely useless at all, or for 50 - 90 percent, and that darker skinned individuals do not have more probable deficiency. Don't know what to say really. VD has other functions beside PTH suppression and marginally increasing Ca uptake and renal conservation.

 

[lvysaur]

and that darker skinned individuals do not have more probable deficiency.

Never said that, I said African people aren't deficient. Other dark skinned people may well be deficient. Indians, Southeast Asians, Native American descent, all have the Eurasian genotype.

VD has other functions

And all of those functions would still be fulfilled. Same as a person with lowish testosterone but low SHBG.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

hormone D.. Pretty much anything we supplement causes an unbalance. Morley Robbins is pretty adamant on D. His RCP suggests sunlight exposure and organ meat consumption--especially beef liver. Because liver has a good balance of nutrients and next to a good form of D it has it's leading team member: Retinol.

Iron Toxicity Post #73: Why I detest hormone-D supplementation.

Last time I checked he was anti D completely, because it "destroys" retinol in the liver. He even said that we need sun only in the mornings for a few minutes. I haven't followed him for a while, maybe he changed his stance. Their facebook page is also cult like and they usually push magnesium supplements of the same company - shortly after Haidut released his Magnoil product I posted about it in the page and the moderators didn't let me post it.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

It's good but calcifediol costs thousands of dollars.

Normal cholecalciferol (what you get in supplement stores) has been known to prevent COVID deaths since March. But some people simply have healthy D levels that are misdiagnosed as "deficient".

African People Aren't Vitamin D Deficient
Nearly all Africans, and half of Eurasians, have falsely deficient vitD readings. They have less vitD binding globulin, so their vitD bioavailability is much higher (approx by a factor of 2).

I have sat in noon sunlight for over an hour each day for two weeks, and my vitamin D level remained at 17 ng/mL. Then I started supplementing liquid D3, 10,000 IU a day, for 2 weeks. Blood test still at 17 ng/mL.

You can make the argument that my liver isn't converting the cholecalciferol, but I highly doubt my liver is so ****88 up that there wasn't even a noticeable increase.

vitamin D is great for some people, but completely and utterly useless for others. 50:50 shot at which one you are (unless you're African in which case 90% shot of it being useless)

Or maybe you don't eat enough of something which is needed fo conversion. Cholesterol, vitmain A? I think it's a common problem in vegans - lot of them who supplement can't get those levels up. I've seen videos of youtube vegans reporting low serum 25OHD levels despite supplementation and getting plenty of sunlight.

 

[lvysaur]

Or maybe you don't eat enough of something which is needed fo conversion. Cholesterol, vitmain A? I think it's a common problem in vegans

Impossible, I eat some type of animal protein every day, and for the last month have eaten eggs/liver/meat basically 3x a day. Milk too

The genetic basis has already been resolved and studied well. Less of the vitamin D version of SHBG = more free D = lab tests "deficient" while having normal D activity. Over half of people have this gene.

 

[Maljam]

Impossible, I eat some type of animal protein every day, and for the last month have eaten eggs/liver/meat basically 3x a day. Milk too

The genetic basis has already been resolved and studied well. Less of the vitamin D version of SHBG = more free D = lab tests "deficient" while having normal D activity. Over half of people have this gene.

How would your theory explain the thousands upon thousands of studies showing significant improvements of conditions from supplemental vitamin D in patients with deficiencies?

 

[lvysaur]

How would your theory explain the thousands upon thousands of studies showing significant improvements of conditions from supplemental vitamin D in patients with deficiencies?

Easy. If D helps 50% of people, while being utterly useless to the other 50%, then overall there will always be a "significant improvement"

The genetic basis also fully explains why Blacks have fewer fractures, and higher bone mineral density than Europeans, despite having far lower vitamin D status. Blacks are 90:10 for the gene (Euros 50:50)

Again, I highly recommend reading my post on it. The genetics have been elucidated fully and completely with large sample sizes. They are causative.

African People Aren't Vitamin D Deficient

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I am not convinced. Bloodwork and true VD status are indeed different things; but it is so wrong to think that just because you cannot measure it well, that there is no dosage need whatsoever. If you do not tan, or supplement, you will get deficiency, no matter what labs are saying.

 

[Arie]

Last time I checked he was anti D completely, because it "destroys" retinol in the liver.

He still is against D supplementation unless of course through ancestral means like eating liver. I see why it confused you: I should have written that Morley is adamantly against D. My bad. The linked article in my post leaves no doubt.

 

[LLight]

I have sat in noon sunlight for over an hour each day for two weeks, and my vitamin D level remained at 17 ng/mL. Then I started supplementing liquid D3, 10,000 IU a day, for 2 weeks. Blood test still at 17 ng/mL.

Maybe your body is favouring the alternative pathway that produces 20-hydroxyvitamin D3:

Spoiler: Vitamin D pathways

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Is their a plausible evolutionary theory why African and white people have these genetic differences in Vit D metabolism?

Sun exposure comes to mind obviously. Maybe dietary.

 

[lvysaur]

Bloodwork and true VD status are indeed different things;

The evidence is overwhelming.

- There's the genetic evidence, with the two SNPs correlating 80% to vitamin D-binding-protein levels.
- The two SNPs cause half as much binding protein, and Europeans (who have less of these genes and thus more binding protein) coincidentally have twice as much total vitamin D.
- There's the fact, observed for decades, that Black people have lower fracture risk, better BMD and better bone health in general than other races. Despite so-called "low vitamin D"
- Finally, there's the testimonials of thousands of people, many on this forum, myself included, who have never experienced any discernible benefit from vitamin D over the many years of taking it.

but it is so wrong to think that just because you cannot measure it well, that there is no dosage need whatsoever

I agree that there may be a dosage need for these people in the wintertime, when it is impossible to synthesize vitamin D. But even here, it's only a "may", not a "definitely will". And that's because there are other genes which directly cause higher vitamin D levels, such genes are common in both Africans and Indians. This would make supplementation have marginal benefit, even in wintertime.

Maybe your body is favouring the alternative pathway that produces 20-hydroxyvitamin D3:

And why would that be? Could easily be because my body detects I have too much vitamin D circulating. I did a cursory check, apparently 20 hydroxy D3 has anti-cancer properties, with no effect on calcium metabolism.

Is their a plausible evolutionary theory why African and white people have these genetic differences in Vit D metabolism?

Yes and no. Europeans have the "thriftier" genes, which store vitamin D--makes sense for a dark climate. However, Indians and Native South Americans do too, among others. Japanese have a more African genotype despite living up north. Sun availability is probably involved somehow but it's not a simple correlation.

 

[LLight]

And why would that be? Could easily be because my body detects I have too much vitamin D circulating. I did a cursory check, apparently 20 hydroxy D3 has anti-cancer properties, with no effect on calcium metabolism.

I don't know, I just wanted to point out that there are numerous vitamin D metabolites that could be the reservoir of your supplementation.

I'm not really a fan of vitamin D supplementation either.

 

[lvysaur]

I'm not really a fan of vitamin D supplementation either.

I just want to be clear that I'm not against D supplementation. There are obviously millions of people who would benefit from it.
But there are also millions who will not, and the vitamin is massively overhyped.