Caffeine Is A Potent Anti-estrogen; Can Block Estrogen "receptor" Completely

[SQu]

Thanks for this and so much helpful info haidut. Some feedback: I'm finding that 1 mg cyproheptadine after breakfast increases my caffeine tolerance ; that more caffeine makes me need more food - cheese and oj are the most appealing and make me feel best and counter a slight feeling of nausea ; more stressful days lower my caffeine tolerance; there are hopeful signs that caffeine may help me a lot with estrogen lowering.

 

[haidut]

Thanks for this and so much helpful info haidut. Some feedback: I'm finding that 1 mg cyproheptadine after breakfast increases my caffeine tolerance ; that more caffeine makes me need more food - cheese and oj are the most appealing and make me feel best and counter a slight feeling of nausea ; more stressful days lower my caffeine tolerance; there are hopeful signs that caffeine may help me a lot with estrogen lowering.

This is to be expected. Caffeine raises ACTH (a stress hormone trigger) and cyproheptadine lowers it. So, in theory taking cyproheptadine before caffeine should allow you to handle a larger dose of caffeine without triggering the stress response. While this is all fine and good, in people for who cypro raises liver enzymes theanine should be able to do the same job - i.e. it also lowers ACTH and serotonin.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Can one of you help me understand:
How do you know when an estrogen receptor is blocked? Estrogen can act on many tissues (maybe all?), so do they all have receptors? Wouldn't it have to be demonstrated in what numbers the receptors exist? Maybe it has...

Well, Ray doe snot believe in the receptor theory. He says that essentially the entire cell serves as a receptor so there is no lock and key mechanism but cellular energy that determines what is allowed inside the cell and what is not. I suppose that in the current study they used both estrogen and caffeine and determined at what concentration of caffeine estrogen was completely prevented from "binding" to the "receptor" and "activating it". In other words, at what concentrations of caffeine did estrogen stop having effects on the cell.

Well, for the sake of confidence in our predictive capacities, we should try to figure out the mechanism(s). We should not assume how estrogen receptors are measured - especially if we do not believe in the ad hoc existence of estrogen receptors - which could completely change the interpretation such studies.

 

[pboy]

what does ray think about other xanthines? Id ask him but I don't know his email and never talked to him
to me theobromine is way better than caffeine, like its on a whole nother level

 

[haidut]

what does ray think about other xanthines? Id ask him but I don't know his email and never talked to him
to me theobromine is way better than caffeine, like its on a whole nother level

I think he writes about some of them in his articles. You can search his site or the forum since the forum has interview transcripts as well. Overall, I am guessing they are probably similar in action. Some of them have been shown to be directly dopaminergic, while caffeine is only claims to be a "functional" dopamine agonist.

 

[narouz]

what does ray think about other xanthines? Id ask him but I don't know his email and never talked to him
to me theobromine is way better than caffeine, like its on a whole nother level

You're a big (black) tea drinker, pboy?

 

[pboy]

nope actually, sometimes green tea but I brew it softly and careful not to squeeze the bag..if youre careful you can avoid most (or all potentially) the tannins, but then also the caffine....I drink it more for the folate and potassium, mild caffeine and probably some of the phenolics...but alas, its still more gentle to me than OJ. And I add milk to it.

I speak of theobromine from past experience with years of cocoa and cacao usage (whatever you wanna call it)...I don't use it like I used to for various reasons...but I definitely think its dopaminergic and...on a deeper level healing than caffeine. I was also a coffe drinker since like 9th (8th?) grade up until like a year ago and used mate, guarana, the likes...in often very large amounts. It is alright, but knowing what I know now...I realize it..its more of a tension stimulation rather than a joy stimulation, where as theobromine seemed moer like a joy dilation stimulation, rather than just pure adrenaline fueled mind...don't get me wrong though, I probably learned so much so fast because caffeine kept me reved up for ..many of those years, but overall it wasn't as joyous. The thing is id usually be, for many years, smoking herbs...so like, I was always good anyways..but without that, I definitely wouldn't have drinkin as much coffee cause its agitating. With theobromine it would actually quell the need to smoke, which is kind of...a huge insight about how it works. They both dilate the heart while simultaneously speed it up, so its actually relaxed and working more efficiently, both dilate breath also. Caffine seems to constrict the heart so it is working more in a stressed state. That's probly why caffeine is more adrenalnine producing and theo is more dopamine and adrenaline, but the dopamine kind of checks it

 

[narouz]

nope actually, sometimes green tea but I brew it softly and careful not to squeeze the bag..if youre careful you can avoid most (or all potentially) the tannins, but then also the caffine....I drink it more for the folate and potassium, mild caffeine and probably some of the phenolics...but alas, its still more gentle to me than OJ. And I add milk to it.

I speak of theobromine from past experience with years of cocoa and cacao usage (whatever you wanna call it)...I don't use it like I used to for various reasons...but I definitely think its dopaminergic and...on a deeper level healing than caffeine. I was also a coffe drinker since like 9th (8th?) grade up until like a year ago and used mate, guarana, the likes...in often very large amounts. It is alright, but knowing what I know now...I realize it..its more of a tension stimulation rather than a joy stimulation, where as theobromine seemed moer like a joy dilation stimulation, rather than just pure adrenaline fueled mind...don't get me wrong though, I probably learned so much so fast because caffeine kept me reved up for ..many of those years, but overall it wasn't as joyous. The thing is id usually be, for many years, smoking herbs...so like, I was always good anyways..but without that, I definitely wouldn't have drinkin as much coffee cause its agitating. With theobromine it would actually quell the need to smoke, which is kind of...a huge insight about how it works. They both dilate the heart while simultaneously speed it up, so its actually relaxed and working more efficiently, both dilate breath also. Caffine seems to constrict the heart so it is working more in a stressed state. That's probly why caffeine is more adrenalnine producing and theo is more dopamine and adrenaline, but the dopamine kind of checks it

I used to drink a lot of black tea like Tippy Assam and honey and cream before getting into Peat.
Back then, when I would try coffee,
I would experience much of what you describe.
Maybe I will return to tea and re-evaluate. :)
(I always squeezed the tea bag; thanks for the warning!)

 

[piotr_zarach]

I do some small test on my gym friend. He takes 1200 mg coffeine at once with big fructose supply. No any problem. It makes him only sleepy :P Experiment was done twice with same results

 

[Such_Saturation]

A part of caffeine turns into theobromine after you eat it.

 

[RPDiciple]

I know fasting is not something that RP like etc but if you dont have alot of stored PUFA it can be used without harm.
I was wondering if then using caffeine and aspirin for extra benefits if there is some stored PUFA that gets released ?
Any other beneficial substances that also can be used in a fasted state ?
Its as part of a fat loss phase. I have been detoxing PUFA for 2 months now with no fat or the trace amounts that are in skim milk etc so say less then 10g fat a day and none of that was PUFA.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

pboy can I ask why squeezing a tea bag makes a difference?

 

[Peata]

post 78625

Thanks for this and so much helpful info haidut. Some feedback: I'm finding that 1 mg cyproheptadine after breakfast increases my caffeine tolerance ; that more caffeine makes me need more food - cheese and oj are the most appealing and make me feel best and counter a slight feeling of nausea ; more stressful days lower my caffeine tolerance; there are hopeful signs that caffeine may help me a lot with estrogen lowering.

This is to be expected. Caffeine raises ACTH (a stress hormone trigger) and cyproheptadine lowers it. So, in theory taking cyproheptadine before caffeine should allow you to handle a larger dose of caffeine without triggering the stress response. While this is all fine and good, in people for who cypro raises liver enzymes theanine should be able to do the same job - i.e. it also lowers ACTH and serotonin.

This was my exerperience as well. Taking a bit of Cyproheptadine along with caffeine gave the energy of caffeine without stress. It was kind of relaxing.

 

[DaveFoster]

This is very interesting. So much so, that I will re-create the conditions of the study as far as concentrations.

I can already tolerate 1 g of caffeine in one sitting, so I will increase by 600 mg each week until I reach 2400 mg in a single dose; I will then take this 3 times per day. I'm somewhat worried for the anxiogenic effects, however, so I will be sure to balance the caffeine with an equal dose of l-theanine.

 

[piotr_zarach]

post 111695 This is very interesting. So much so, that I will re-create the conditions of the study as far as concentrations.

I can already tolerate 1 g of caffeine in one sitting, so I will increase by 600 mg each week until I reach 2400 mg in a single dose; I will then take this 3 times per day. I'm somewhat worried for the anxiogenic effects, however, so I will be sure to balance the caffeine with an equal dose of l-theanine.

Wow. How you get so high coffeine tolerance?

 

[EIRE24]

A bit off topic but would it be wise to refrain from drinking coffee if metabolism is low and you are not burning sugar efficiently? I ask because I suspect that my metabolism isn't the best and although I used to drink a lot of coffee because I love it, I have been trying to stay clear of it in fear I might just be running myself into a sort of nutritional debt as it speeds up metabolism without the proper nutrition to back it up with?

 

[milk_lover]

post 111716 A bit off topic but would it be wise to refrain from drinking coffee if metabolism is low and you are not burning sugar efficiently? I ask because I suspect that my metabolism isn't the best and although I used to drink a lot of coffee because I love it, I have been trying to stay clear of it in fear I might just be running myself into a sort of nutritional debt as it speeds up metabolism without the proper nutrition to back it up with?

I read in the forum that Peat said everybody can handle coffee along with food. From my own experience, in the beginning you would need to drink it with enough sugar and milk. Since the sugar and coffee might raise your metabolism, you'll need to increase your nutrients. Sugar and coffee everywhere in the web are said to deplete (or increase your need for) magnesium. Also B vitamins are said to be depleted from heavy coffee consumption (or sugar consumption--increased metabolism). I remember I saw a study that looked at the effect of coffee on B vitamins and B-6 was the most reduced among the three b vitamin studied (B12, B6, and I forgot the third). Remember Peat does not recommend big doses of B-6, he recommends maximum of 10mg/day. If you try to heavily supplement one type of B vitamins (let's say B1), remember to take maybe a B complex or something to probably balance stuff up. I think B vitamins have synergic relationships just like fat-soluble vitamins.

 

[DaveFoster]

Wow. How you get so high coffeine tolerance?

It took about 3 months. Like haidut said, 200 mg increased per week is an understandable protocol. You could probably even push it to 50 mg per day.

post 111716 A bit off topic but would it be wise to refrain from drinking coffee if metabolism is low and you are not burning sugar efficiently? I ask because I suspect that my metabolism isn't the best and although I used to drink a lot of coffee because I love it, I have been trying to stay clear of it in fear I might just be running myself into a sort of nutritional debt as it speeds up metabolism without the proper nutrition to back it up with?

Caffeine has some strong benefits for the liver. Niacinamide may help improve the liver's ability to store and utilize glycogen by shifting metabolism away from burning fatty acids. As long as you hit all of your RDA's, (for me I aim for at least 2-4x the RDA for everything except for iron), you should have nothing to worry about. Eat nutrient dense food; milk, fish, fruit and fruit juices, well-cooked vegetables like potatoes (if you're into that sort of thing), and liver is generally recommended.

Here's a tip: Have a glass of juice before you drink your coffee with milk instead of table sugar in the coffee if you're so worried. Things like coconut oil, gelatin, and table sugar all are devoid of micronutrients.

 

[Ritchie]

Thanks for this and so much helpful info haidut. Some feedback: I'm finding that 1 mg cyproheptadine after breakfast increases my caffeine tolerance ; that more caffeine makes me need more food - cheese and oj are the most appealing and make me feel best and counter a slight feeling of nausea ; more stressful days lower my caffeine tolerance; there are hopeful signs that caffeine may help me a lot with estrogen lowering.

This is to be expected. Caffeine raises ACTH (a stress hormone trigger) and cyproheptadine lowers it. So, in theory taking cyproheptadine before caffeine should allow you to handle a larger dose of caffeine without triggering the stress response. While this is all fine and good, in people for who cypro raises liver enzymes theanine should be able to do the same job - i.e. it also lowers ACTH and serotonin.

Hi Haidut,
Can you recommend a good quality theanine supplement? I have been taking cypro and want to try theanine as an alternative just to switch it up however all the ones I have found have a lot of undesirable additives/excipents..

 

[haidut]

post 111867

Thanks for this and so much helpful info haidut. Some feedback: I'm finding that 1 mg cyproheptadine after breakfast increases my caffeine tolerance ; that more caffeine makes me need more food - cheese and oj are the most appealing and make me feel best and counter a slight feeling of nausea ; more stressful days lower my caffeine tolerance; there are hopeful signs that caffeine may help me a lot with estrogen lowering.

This is to be expected. Caffeine raises ACTH (a stress hormone trigger) and cyproheptadine lowers it. So, in theory taking cyproheptadine before caffeine should allow you to handle a larger dose of caffeine without triggering the stress response. While this is all fine and good, in people for who cypro raises liver enzymes theanine should be able to do the same job - i.e. it also lowers ACTH and serotonin.

Hi Haidut,
Can you recommend a good quality theanine supplement? I have been taking cypro and want to try theanine as an alternative just to switch it up however all the ones I have found have a lot of undesirable additives/excipents..

Well, the powder companies have high purity product and it is pretty cheap. So, PureBulk is one option. If you prefer capsules, NutraBio.com has a theanine product without any additives. Btw, I am not endorsing these companies in any way.