Low Toxin Supplements B12 injections as possible antidote to vitamin A toxicity

[kYgirl]

Fermentable fibers and vitamin B12 dependency - PubMed

Addition of the fermentable fiber pectin to a B12-deficient diet accelerates development of deficiency symptoms. This appears to be the result of changes in the intestinal bacteria that bind vitamin B12, interfere with enterohepatic circulation, and accelerate depletion of this vitamin.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article-abstract/37/4/116/1868646?login=false

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022316622173153

This study uses pectin to make rats B12-deficient quickly: https://pubs.aip.org/aip/acp/articl...cient-rat-model-based?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Yikes!! I am taking modified citrus pectin to remove heavy metals from the body.

 

[DanDare]

I am following this thread with keen interest.
I hope we can collect evidence towards and against bile binders depleting nutrients, in particular b12.

I just want to share this quick screenshot also linking an interaction between b12 and high zinc intake. Worth exploring I think to see whether it is true or false.

 

[Sinjin]

Manganese

"The negative influence of both fiber and phytate on manganese bioavailability was illustrated by Schwartz et al.[10] In their study, the consumption of three bran muffins per day produced negative manganese balance despite dietary levels of 13.9 mg of Mn/day."

 

[Osukhan]

Yikes!! I am taking modified citrus pectin to remove heavy metals from the body.

i have been using mod citrus pectin as well, when i use the sauna...
im going to get a B12 shot this weekend, maybe will try it a few times a week, and ill report back

 

[charlie]

i have been using mod citrus pectin as well, when i use the sauna...
im going to get a B12 shot this weekend, maybe will try it a few times a week, and ill report back

I have been digging into the B12 groups and it can take quite a while for full recovery especially if dealing with neurological issues. I saw a poll in the group and it was asked how long till the person started feeling normal so that you could go on with life again, 4 to 8 months was the time period with the most votes. Some people with really bad neurological symptoms can take 1 to 2 years and sometimes even longer.

I was checking out the B12 society website today and it was interesting the common misdiagnoses of vitamin B12 deficiency.

COMMON MISDIAGNOSES | The B12 Society

Read about the conditions that vitamin B12 deficiency/pernicious anaemia are often misdiagnosed as.

www.theb12society.com

I think @mosaic01 is onto something big here.

 

[InChristAlone]

I think there are factors that can lead to using up more B12 than we take in, and a major one is sulfites or hydrogen sulfide that can be excessively produced in the gut. I think fostering a good microbiome with beans will slowly over time resolve the bacterial problems, so we shouldn't fear fiber is causing deficiencies. I have been looking more into whole grains as when I rely too much on white rice and white flour I think that does cause deficiencies and my tingling and numbness was the worst it ever was while consuming beef beans and white rice white pasta along with a lot of dried cranberries which have <10 ppm sulfite. When I stop the sulfites the tingling gets way better proving for me that in my case I can get enough B12 from beef as long as I limit sulfites.

 

[InChristAlone]

FYI some websites list dextrose as having at least 10 ppm sulfites. They don't have to list it unless it goes over that amount which is why it's not listed on dried cranberries packages, but is clearly there because they are brightly colored. Anything that needs to last a long time they typically just add it in.
And on the flipside, taking B12 can help people tolerate sulfites.

Oxides of Sulfur Ingredient Table​

​

Group	Name	Code	Makeup %	SOx ppm
Corn	Corn Starch, unmodified	STU	88% starch	20 ppm
	Corn Starch, modified	STM	90% starch	19
	Maltodextrin (polydex)	MAL	90% starch	18
	Corn Syrup or Glucose	CSG	80% sugar	13
	Corn Syrup Solids	CSS	96% sugar	14
	Dextrose	DEX	92% sugar	12
	Fructose	FRU	99% sugar	1.0
	High Fructose Syrup	HFS	76% sugar	1.3
Grape	Market grapes	GRP	16% sugar	5
	Grape Juice Con	GRC	60% sugar	8
	White Grape Juice	GRX	60 % sugar	80
	Raisins or Raisin Paste	RSN	74% sugar	12
	Wine	WIN	90% water	50
	Wine Vinegar	WIV	94% water	40
Potato	Dehydrated Potato	PTD	74% starch	70
	Frozen Potato (fries)	PTF	21% starch	13
	Potato Starch	PST	90% starch	4
	Potato Flour	PFL	80% starch	40
Protein	Gelatin	GEL	85% protein	45
	Shrimp or Crab	SHP	20% protein	16
	Pizza, cheese topping	PZA	70% crust	5.5
	Eggs	EGG	12% protein	1.0
	Cheese, mild	CHM, etc.	See "Protein"	2.0
Fruit	Fruit, dried and sulfured	FTS	56% sugar	220
	Coconut, dry/shredded	CNT	50% sugar	145
	Lemon Juice Con	LJC	92% water	154
	Apple Cider Vinegar	ACV	94% water	10
Sweets	Cane Sugar	SGC	100% sugar	0.6
	Powdered Sugar	SGP	97% sugar	1.5
	Molasses, sulfured	MOL	69% sugar	90
	Peanuts	PNT	25% protein	1.1
	Chocolate, cocoa	COA, etc.	See "Sweet"	5
Caramel *	See "Color Caramel"	CCB, etc.	See "Color"	0.2 - 12

Knowing the Demons

 

[Osukhan]

I think there are factors that can lead to using up more B12 than we take in, and a major one is sulfites or hydrogen sulfide that can be excessively produced in the gut. I think fostering a good microbiome with beans will slowly over time resolve the bacterial problems, so we shouldn't fear fiber is causing deficiencies. I have been looking more into whole grains as when I rely too much on white rice and white flour I think that does cause deficiencies and my tingling and numbness was the worst it ever was while consuming beef beans and white rice white pasta along with a lot of dried cranberries which have <10 ppm sulfite. When I stop the sulfites the tingling gets way better proving for me that in my case I can get enough B12 from beef as long as I limit sulfites.

fun fact peptobismal can be used to bind hydrogen sulfide

 

[mosaic01]

I was checking out the B12 society website today and it was interesting the common misdiagnoses of vitamin B12 deficiency.

COMMON MISDIAGNOSES | The B12 Society

Read about the conditions that vitamin B12 deficiency/pernicious anaemia are often misdiagnosed as.

www.theb12society.com

And here's a paper that shows how the symptoms of the flu (covid) and B12 deficiency also match perfectly. The same has been suggested for the flu and vitamin A toxicity.

The role of vitamin B12 in viral infections: a comprehensive review of its relationship with the muscle-gut-brain axis and implications for SARS-CoV-2 infection - PubMed

This comprehensive review establishes the role of vitamin B12 as adjunct therapy for viral infections in the treatment and persistent symptoms of COVID-19, focusing on symptoms related to the muscle-gut-brain axis. Vitamin B12 can help balance immune responses to better fight viral infections...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It seems the environment has become so toxic since the 70s or 80s (EMF satellite grid, vaccines) that people with certain genes are depleting their B12, which in turn makes all the stored vitamin A exponentially toxic.

All of the following diagnoses have appeared in the last 50 years, most of them did not even exist before and just came out of nowhere. Those who existed before where not endemic but rare diseases.

- ADHD
- Autism
- CFS/ME
- Dementia, Alzheimers
- Bipolar Disorder
- Diabetes
- Fibromyalgia
- Multiple Sclerosis (MS)

Read the acne response was trapped homocysteine in the skin. Run into any skin issues @mosaic01 with the injections?

No one really knows why it happens, but it's probably retinol detox. I had very subtle acne when starting.

 

[mosaic01]

Anecdote about B12 and potassium:

My long Covid nightmare and how I overcame it: Cambridge patient finally discovers cause of her relapses

Adelina Chalmers had to trek across Europe to discover the cure for her symptoms after suffering a devastating relapse.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

She was being injected with B12 every other day, but was still having symptoms of deficiency.

Adelina then heard through a friend that doctors in her native Romania may be willing to investigate.

“She booked appointments for me with everyone – neurologists, cardiologists and pulmonary experts to pursue everything,” says Adelina.

While there, doctors carried out a barrage of tests.

“I showed the doctors pictures of my face when I had one of these collapses. They initially thought I had experienced a temporary ischemic attack which is like a stroke and can lead to a more serious stroke,” said the business consultant.

“So they gave me an emergency MRI scan of my brain to check for strokes and to see if I needed to be put on blood thinners. But they found nothing. They also did carotid artery scans and just couldn’t find anything. So they were baffled and they thought I might have a neurological disease called myasthenia gravis, triggered by Covid. They knew of a case caused by Covid in Germany. Eventually tests ruled that out too.”

The neurologist in Romania then had one last suggestion, which turned out to be correct.

“He called me to say I may be suffering from hyopokaelemia episodes, which could be caused by low potassium levels linked to the amount of B12 injections I was having and my insulin resistance,” she says.

“My potassium level was low but on the border of normal. The neurologist said he could imagine if it dropped lower than that I would have a crisis, which would show up as severe muscle weakness, slurry words, being unable to blink properly, and would explain why my face fell. So I thought this is pretty crazy, you know, that it could be such a simple solution. So I started drinking electrolytes every single day that had potassium and magnesium in high doses. And the crashes disappeared. I couldn’t believe that this simple thing had been having such a massive impact on my life.”

 

[htuoyabc]

@mosaic01 Thanks for this thread. Following with great interest.

 

[JayDee]

I've always wondered why this community has largely remained oblivious to this, so I figured the thinking here would be that the core issue is really hypothyroidism, and that maybe it was me who was behind...

Indeed, I then found that hypothyroidism seems to bring a lack of Vit B in general, possibly including B12.

I also found that Tom Brimeyer has this opinion, or at least re. the anemia aspect.
IOW, anemia is often hypothyroidism, not necessarily B12D or lack of iron.
He shares that in www.forefronthealth.com/hypothyroidism-and-ferritin (and also believes in the cancer risk of very high B12 levels)

I've read tons in the main groups and there are some people helped by sublinguals -- you can be lucky.
It's also deeper than you initially think. Not possible for your doc to level up on it fast enough, which is why some just give up and let you inject and do your thing.

I wonder why you haven't mentioned Sally Pacholok, as her book is considered the bible on B12D, and I consider this the bombshell video:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqjyAeOLyKM

There's also a TV movie about her:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvMxJ6GRBNQ

I only found Chandy a year ago and that seems to be an awesome book (I suspect I will like it better).

What you probably could have stressed more is how folic acid fortification is masking B12D (I think you may have just hinted it). It's in the first vid.

When I read Metformin and statins will probably steal B12, I knew what the source of mum's problems was. The hypothyroidism only became clear and more serious later on... Unexpectedly, her new doc seemed interested in the B12D and wanted to read my books. Her previous one had mocked me...
If he gets interested in hypothyroidism too, I don't know how he will be able to stay in the system...

This one is good too, even if you don't have pernicious anemia...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfFMmDwxEo

 

[pushkin]

This is a very interesting read thank you @mosaic01 so you suffered from tingling in the extremities which indicated a B12 deficiency and then you had tingling in the extremities as you brought your B12 levels back online. How did you distinguish between the two? Am I right in saying that an electrical type of sensation could indicate low B12 and a pins and needles sensation could indicate that the nerves are waking up again? thank you.

@JayDee thank you for the links. the first documentary was extremely interesting.

 

[JayDee]

so you suffered from tingling in the extremities which indicated a B12 deficiency and then you had tingling in the extremities as you brought your B12 levels back online.

This also happens for some on inclined bed therapy, as the gravity aspect (and/or increased circulation) helps regenerate nerves or slow down degeneration. Nerves coming back can be very painful, I hear.

The first documentary was extremely interesting.

I've watched it many times, and shocks me every time... The narrator has the perfect tragic vibe to her voice

I almost ordered shots for mum as she had a list of like 15 symptoms and was strongly pseudo demented for a while (not officially -- doc and neurologist didn't even notice ; they just look at graphs and numbers.).

One day, mum had another mini stroke and I used my new IR light for the first time. After 4 mins use and two hours of sleep, it was the biggest miracle I will ever witness... It seemed like it had 70% fixed her and many B12D symptoms were gone. She even started making ingenious jokes (she normally doesn't even get much humor).

IOW, you can in some cases relieve B12D symptoms quickly -- or maybe if they mostly had another cause to begin with. Despite a clean MRI earlier on, I suspect she had some inflammation in the brain (built up over 20 years or more) that the IR light relieved.
The huge thing was that we could communicate again and that she was not a contrarian to any of my good intentions anymore (she still is to some extent, as I'm still deciding on how to get the hypothyroidism and B12D helped best... -- and of course, they don't want to change their bad habits.).

The Pat Kornic you can see in the first video, who sadly mentions, "When you’re deficient in B12, it interferes with the production of Serotonin." is the main admin in the FB group that goes with the work of Sally Pacholok, RN, BSN...

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

www.facebook.com

However, since they want to get taken seriously, it's a very dogmatic and strict group. I got banned for mentioning my red light story (and probably some cheekiness ). I can understand that to a great extent -- it's just that they are unaware of some important things that happen to not be mainstream...

Great in this FB group ^ are over 200 files with helpful studies and advice.

Many of them do realize it often goes together with hypothyroidism, but they probably don't understand the full extent and (I suspect) will blame anemia on B12D.

BTW, IIRC, Chandy too said you can sometimes heal quickly and that the problems you acquired last should be the first to get fixed again.

The FB group stresses more that it took a long time to build up and it will take a long time to get fixed. So when I tell them it basically took me 4 mins to fix mum, it obviously sets them off... (but again, maybe 70% of mum's prob was another thing).

I suspect most brain probs can give you many symptoms that are in the large B12D lists. If you look these lists up from many sources, you will eventually find any symptom you want to find, so to speak. This is also why docs like to dismiss it, as they think we're using it as a catch-all. Docs mostly seem to watch red blood cell count, and when getting serious may give you a round of B12 injections and consider it fixed. Seems they never got the memo on all other important symptoms (well, they did a few times according to the video). I found back in old books how they already knew that you have to check B12 first for any neurological problem -- like sociopathy, etc. Seems that was put under the rug, as not teaching about hypothyroidism and B12D is the ideal situation to keep people running to docs forever and never get fixed...)

On the PA forum someone even thought they were gonna stop teaching the anemia link too...

This made me cry...

[woman in public] My godson has just passed his qualifications as a GP. He’s now doing research at Bristol University. I said to him, "What did you learn about vitamins?" He said, "In the six or so years we did three weeks." I said, "What did you learn about Vit B12?" He said, "I was told it wasn’t important." It wasn’t an important vitamin…


View: http://youtu.be/CjJpAWveFtY?si=u04CvHcfoWCb-YAa&t=893

 

[pushkin]

@JayDee Very interesting about the IR light - near or far? I just watched the film too. It was really good.

I found back in old books how they already knew that you have to check B12 first for any neurological problem -- like sociopathy, etc

Can you remember which old books you read?

 

[JayDee]

Can you remember which old books you read?

I will eventually find it, but I suffered an SSD crash a year ago that had a screenshot...
IIRC, it was a 60ies or 70ies book on the brain. I may have a look later in my brain books folder, as I'd like it back myself.
The video also gave an example of at least one old article, IIRC.

 

[JayDee]

Very interesting about the IR light - near or far? I just watched the film too. It was really good.

I used a redlightman NIR. The previous model of this...

Infrared 830 Device - Red Light Man

Intense beam of therapeutic infrared light. 830 nm only The single best infrared light wavelength. Hand-held, hangable, tabletop Unique beam angle for high penetration.

redlightman.com

As mum was just lying there, I slowly went around the part of her head that was still visible a few times -- from pretty close. It does heat up things and I was trying not to set the hair on fire Telling what happened 2 hrs later still often makes me cry. We had just reached a stage where mum was burning the food several days a week, was very contrarian, had severe absence or brain fog, zero concentration, etc., etc. I feared I had to have an eye on her 24/24.

I'm now wondering if what was there (like some blockage, clot or inflammation) may still have been created/helped by B12D... When I saw Sally's book about 8 years ago and how Metformin can steal B12/folate, I knew I should immediately take action, but didn't until a year ago...
It explained why I felt she had very slowly degraded and had a subtle personality change. She's been on Metformin for probably 30 years or more...
Her B12 level is now 200. Chandy started injection under 300 (IIRC) and depending on symptoms, and I hear NASA thinks we should have 400 minimum. (of that amount, 80% may be inactive, which docs have no clue about -- so the standard B12 test sucks)

I only repeated the IR light like 7 times after that, but of course you can never get that kind of miracle again. The good results stuck for the most part, but a year later she does need other treatments now asap, I think. B12D for sure is still there in many ways and I've realized the state of her hypothyroidism better now which is causing some heart issues. She had cardioversion for a-fib a month ago and hospital report only stated that hypothyroidism is "subclinical"...

BTW, I discovered they gave her Cipro abx for bladder infection, and I suspect that took her thyroid down... I remember she started gaining a fair amount of weight suddenly a few years ago (which luckiliy didn't keep on going).

OK, I'll try to find that book now.

Here's a pamphlet...

https://b12awareness.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/B-12-Pamphlet-Tri-fold-PDF.pdf

I think my brother became a complete "psycho" because of B12D from alcoholism (and/or mercury), or the Korsakov syndrome...
I've had a bout myself for a year (more later maybe) and have probably always been on the brink as a vegetarion (I grayed early, etc.).

 

[Ras]

Here's a 20W 850 nm flood light.

 

[JayDee]

Can you remember which old books you read?

It's only from 1980 but possibly known much longer...
It even has Roger Williams in afterword and mentioned :)

It's basically what groups are still advocating today.
Like when someone acts weird, first consider B12D before supposing they are an a-hole. I indeed suspect up to 80% may not be. I also suspect my cheeky behavior at times may be helped by always having bordered on being too low. The symptom is in a list, but they use another word for it. Besides considering it in others, it's essential to keep an eye on your own behavior in this regard -- before it's too late and you won't accept any B12D suggestions anymore...

William H Philpott, MD, & Dwight K Kalita, PhD (Brain Allergies: The Psychonutrient Connection, 1980):
"A higher incidence of B12 deficiencies has been discovered in mental patients than in the general population. Symptoms resulting from B12 deficiency range from poor concentration to stuporous depression, severe agitation and hallucinations. Pernicious anemia is a better-known symptom of this vitamin deficiency. Edwin and his associates have reported that the amount of vitamin B12 in the serum of every patient over thirty years old admitted to a mental hospital in Norway during a period of one year clearly demonstrated a 15.4% pathologically low concentration of the nutrient. H.L. Newbold, MD, suggests that when the serum B12 level is below 200 mcg per ml of blood, the patients should be routinely given at least monthly — if not weekly — injections of hydroxocobalamin 1000 mcg/ml the remainder of their lives. Certainly, this is good advice in view of the possible consequences of demyelination of the spinal cord and the brain itself in states where the serum B12 is low."

The book is easy to find.

 

[DanDare]

Nitrous oxide and nitric oxide are often used interchangeably as NO. In the first video posted above by @JayDee nitrous oxide is listed several times as a blocker of B12, pushing people into the deficiency hole ( that's hard to climb out of).
I have also found studies that seem to suggest nitric oxide interferes with B12.

I wonder if practically any drug increases the risk of B12 deficiency. We know the following do ( not just drugs) :

Metformin, alcohol, nitrous oxide,

And also folic acid

And I suspect the following also do

Minoxidil, since it is is a nitric oxide agonist ( it increases nitric oxide).
Finasteride
Vitamin a